fcv 295 TM 265 after some advise/real life experience

hi guys Im after some advise/real life experience.
I was all but sold on the simrad 2009 with a tm265 LH
but have decided to go with a fcv 295 with tm265 LH
ive read plenty that it works well but just wanted to confirm a few things with others before making a wrong choice.
I fish between 300-1500ft and looked at the LM but thought I could use the LH transducer in 100ft. or ive since found out the LM might be the better choice.
are there any other options on transducer other than the tm 265. 2kw is starting to stretch the budget and transom mount is my only option. or will i be disappointed with 1kw
do I need to buy any other electronics to run this set up?
or is it just wire the transducer to the fcv 295, simple ?
can I link the fcv 295 with the hds gen2 touch to get gps points ?
thanks in advance adam

Good morning Adam,

Thank you for your inquiry. As you have probably researched the FCV295 has a Free Synthesizing Transceiver which allows you to choose different frequencies to transmit at. This is a manual process but pretty easy to do after a little practice. Please keep in mind that the FCV295 does have some frequency ranges that it cannot transmit at. The frequency ranges the FCV295 cannot transmit at are the following: 53-65 kHz, 111-139 kHz, and 171-183 kHz. When looking at chirp transducer bandwidth please keep these frequencies in mind because you will not be able to adjust the 295 to transmit within those frequencies. The Airmar TM265LH is a 1kw transom mount transducer that is Chirp capable. Meaning the elements are designed to be efficient at multiple frequencies. The stated bandwidth of the B265LH works on lower frequencies at 42-65 kHz and higher frequencies 130-210 kHz.

Typically the rule of thumb to go deep with a CW (continuous wave) sounder is a factor of two principles, output power and frequency, with frequency really playing a more important role. Really to go deep you want to look at lower frequencies, the lower the frequency the deeper you go. If you increase the output power with lower frequencies then you have a true deep drop machine.

Some other questions to consider include what type of fishing you do. Transducer beam width can play a big role in your decision. For example if you are targeting pelagic species you will probably want to find a transducer that has a wider beam angle so you can cover more water, it will also stretch your fish targets on the machine because with a wider beam angle the fish stay in the beam longer extended the marks on the screen. If you are trying to focus on bottom fishing especially looking for structure and wide beam and a narrow beam is a good combination. The wide beam lets you find the structure and the narrow beam allows you to pinpoint where that structure is and stay on top of it. The TM265LH at lower frequencies has a beam angle 25-16 degrees with the wider beam at the lowest frequency. The higher frequency beam angles range from 10-6 degrees with the smallest beam angle at the highest frequency.


As you mentioned below, your only option is a transom mount transducer, this will limit your options regarding transducer choices, but it is what it is. Fish detection with the TM265LH with low frequency is going to be pushing the envelope at 1500ft. There is no doubt the sounder and transducer combination will find bottom at that depth but your fish detection at that depth is going to be pushed. We perform sweep tests with different transducers when they become available. When we did a sweep test of the B265LH, same elements as a TM265LH, we found the strongest returns around 42 kHz on the low side and around 135 on the high side. Please see picture below.



If you do go with that transducer to get the best results deep you will want to be around the 42kHz frequency.



The FCV295 requires a non-diplexed transducer. It would not require additional components to work with the TM265LH or LM.

The FCV295 has the ability to output a TLL when it is fed position from a NMEA0183 device. The plotter would require the ability to use a TLL NMEA0183 sentence.

If you do not plan on using the frequency ranges the TM265LH has to offer you might consider a TM260 non-diplexed transducer which is less expensive. Although the TM260 is locked into specific frequencies at 50 kHz and 200 kHz I don't believe you will see a loss of performance. However if you plan to add a chirp sounder to your vessel in the future the TM265 might be the way to go.

Please keep in mind the TM260

Ultimately you are limited to choices because you can only use a transom mount transducer. So larger output power and other frequency transducers are limited.

C-Bass

hi c bass thanks for the in depth reply.
mainly chasing the fish close to the bottom, but I do troll for tuna.
so the tm265LM would be ok but sounds like a 2kw would be better for deep sounding fish.
ive had a look about online and found some guys transom mounting the 2kw CA82B-35R and for another 150 odd dollars it might be the way to go for seeing the fish close to the bottom.
so am I on the right path in saying the TM265LH or LM would be better for finding tuna in the water column
and the 2kw CA82B-35R better for fish tight to the bottom.
always a compromise in what is best.
I also have the TM260 in mind, I thought it might be the cheaper end of the transducers I could pick, would I be happy with it ?
the reason im buying the fcv 295 is I want it to last a long time and have read that they are awesome.
I also want to pick the right transducer.
thanks in advance for your advise

hi ive decided to go with a TM265 LM , im looking for fish close to the bottom
my question is how do I go about setting the frequency range on the 295
I read the Setting up a FCV-295/FCV-1150 with a Chirp Transducer
295 is blocked out from transmitting in three frequency bands. The first is 53-65, 111-139 and 171-183Khz
I found that I can set the L on 40 and can slew to any frequency from 30 to 50
it offers the H settings of 155 slew 30 each way
is there a recommended best tested range to set the M of this transducer
airmar website state Medium Frequency Element 85-135KHz
and how about a wiring diagram for the M
Tap setting for the M
thanks adam

Good morning Empire07,

Thank you for your inquiry. You are correct that the FCV295 has 3 frequency bands it cannot transmit at. So with that being said your low frequency setting looks good. Although at the centering frequency of 40 you will not have enough bandwidth to reach the full capability of the low side of the transducer. I think that is ok, from different sweep tests that we have conducted we felt we got the best results around 42 kHz. Please see the sweep test below, you will notice the strongest 3rd echo around 42 kHz.

Unfortunately we have not conducted a sweep test for the medium frequencies of this transducer. If you set the high frequency channel to a centering frequency of 88 kHz the maximum bandwidth you can achieve is 44 kHz. Which means you will be able to slew the frequency +/- 22 Khz from the centering frequency. Which means you get run the 295 as high as 110 kHz and as low as 66 kHz. Which gives you as much leeway to the no transmit frequencies of the 295.

You will probably want to experiment and conduct your own sweep test at the medium frequencies, look at the 2nd and third echoes while staying in the same depth. Start low and work yourself higher to find what frequency gives you the strongest return. You can start with that and see how things go.

You will want to choose Tap (A) for both High and Low frequencies.

Hi c bass
thanks for your help im not sure it is said enough but i have read countless posts on this forum and i do appriciate yours and everyones help with the answers.
ok so i found that the transducer
Airmar TM265-LM Broadband CHIRP Transducer, No connector
LM Model - Low Frequency 42-65 kHz/Medium Frequency 85-135 kHz.
stupid question sorry i just wanted to confirm
so with the medium i can go past 85 and to 66
and low go past the 42 to 30
Is that one of the advantages of the 295 making the transducer work outside of the manufacturers khz ratings?

So the tap A setting for high is the same for medium
and the wiring im assuming it is the same just put the medium wires into where the high ones would go

Thanks adam

Good morning Empire07,

The TM265LM was designed to operate best at the frequency ranges described below.

LOW: 42 kHz - 65 kHz
MEDIUM: 85 kHz - 135 kHz.

On the low side there are frequencies that are blocked from 53 kHz to 65 kHz if you wanted The maximum bandwidth at that center frequency will be 47 kHz. So the sounder would allow you to go as low as 36 Khz and as high as 52.6 kHz. The transducer can transmit at frequencies other than what it was designed for. On the low side we have found the sweet spot around 42 kHz.

The medium frequency is the same way, the transducer can transmit at frequencies outside of the 85-135 kHz range. The question is what will the performance be. Since we have not performed a sweep test, I cannot tell you what that sweet spot will be for the medium frequency. In order to find it and maximize the potential bandwidth of the 295 the centering frequency should be set to 88 kHz. Now you may find that the transducer does not give very good returns below 85. However, if you set the center frequency to 88 it gives you the most bandwidth to experiment with. I hope that makes sense.

The trick with a broad range transducer is find where the sweet spot is for your particular fishery.

Yes, the sounder has a high and low channels. When you select low frequency on the sounder knob you know you will be using the low side. When you select the high frequency on the sounder knob you will know that you will be at the medium frequency. You should connect the low side of the transducer to the low terminal on the 295 and the medium side of the transducer to the high terminal. Both taps should be at "A"

c-bass

Hi c bass
Thanks for your reply
Yep Im pretty across all your answers for my questions
But I did get thinking about how you said 1500ft would be a push with the tm265
Later on could I buy a rubber coated 2kw for deep water (pole mounted off the transom) and take the wires of the low side of the TM265 out of the 295 and put the new wires of the 2kw into the low side of the 295 (and change the tap setting ?)
Can the 295 run both transducers?
Can the 295 run 2 different frequencies on the one transducer TM265LH-LM/TM185M if only connected to the high side of the 295 terminals
(hope this makes sense) ?
and/or could I do the same buy a TM185M or HW to start with on the high side of the 295 and buy a 2kw later on maybe a CA50B-12 for deep dropping

thanks adam

Good morning Empire07

If use the plan you proposed in the previous post, you could run the 2kw rubber coated transducer into the low frequency terminal like the CA50-12hr you mentioned below .

Yes, the FCV 295 could run both transducers.

I think I understand your next question. You want to know if the FCV 295 can run two or more frequencies with one transducer on a single terminal. That is the beauty with the FCV295, with a broad range transducer you can slew the frequency. So you can choose to run the transmit frequency at the range of frequencies you select in the transducer setup. Once the center frequency is set, in normal operation you can slew the frequency to a frequency within that range.

hi c bass
I think I might try the TM185 HW to start with and later on save some dollars and buy the 2kw.
I thought the HW would give me some coverage trolling for tuna and finding bottom fish in shallow and a narrow cone 2kw to pin point them. I guessed the CA50-12hr for its narrow cone.
hoping to later on do some deep dropping in 1500ft for bottom fish.
is there a better choice of transducer than the CA50-12hr ?

yep so with the TM185 HW on the high side of the 295 terminals can I display the 135 kHz on the left side of the screen and then put the 200khz (or slew about to find a better kHz)on the right side of the screen
sounds like I can display 2 different frequencies at once ?
thanks adam

Good afternoon Empire07,

The CA50-12hr cone angle is 14 x 18.5 degrees. If you take the smaller size at 14 which is bow to stern, at 1500ft the cone diameter is bow to stern is 368ft.

The please remember the high side of the FCV295 has lock out frequencies at 171-183. Which means when you set the centering frequency it won't allow you to choose a frequency within that range. Which means you could set the centering frequency 170 to 140 or 184 to 220. When you choose a centering frequency and exit the transducer setup it locks the system in. From the main menu under frequency control you get to choose the frequencies you want, this is where you slew the frequency. If you choose a centerning frequency at 170, the max total bandwidth would be 42.5 kHz +/- from 170. Unfortunately because of the lock out frequency of 171-184 the unit would not allow you to choose a transmit frequency above 170, it would only allow you to go lower. The same is true if you choose a centering frequency above 184, although the system would have enough bandwidth to go lower than 171 it would lock you out of choosing a frequency below 185. You would only be able to go higher. I understand what you are trying to do but the system will not allow you to do this unfortunately. Which means you can run the TM185w on just the high frequency. But you will need to decide to run the from 140-170 or 185-220. Now you can always go into the transducer setup menu to change the centering frequency. But again if you choose the lower side of 170, you could only set the 2 frequencies on the display between 140-170. If you choose the higher side of 184, you could set the 2 frequencies on the display to 185-220 but not go lower until you change the centering frequency.

It is kind of confusing and hard to explain so I hope you understand.

Please keep in mind with a wide beam transducer at 25 degrees the large beam angle kind of dilutes the energy. so if you were to compare a wide beam transducer say at 200 kHz and a standard transducer at 200 kHz with the same output power. You would get better fish detection with the standard beam over the wide beam at deeper depths say below 300ft.

hi c bass
yep I did forget about the lock out frequencies
and I am following what your saying thanks, I could put it on 185 kHz on the left side of the screen and then put it on 200khz on the right side of the screen
that will allow me to compare the frequencies of the TM185HW
and play around with what khz is working best.
its a pretty cool function of the 295.
I thought it wouldn't be possible to display 2 frequencies at the same time via only 2 wires connected, to the highside terminals.
glad I asked and looking forward to trying it out

so the CA50-12hr might not be the best for pin pointing deep water fish then ?
368ft is quite a large area at 1500ft.
I guessed it as it was the tighter of the cone angles of the 2 kw transducers
is the CA88B-10 a better choice with 8 degree cone ?

thanks adam

Good afternoon Empire07,

Thank you for your inquiry. If the deep water fish you are trying to pinpoint are on the bottom or close to the bottom the size of beam angle will not be an issue. Fish close to the bottom really only show up if you are directly over them, it is a timing thing and really hard to explain. For example, if the bottom is flat, the shortest point from the transducer to the bottom is directly under the boat. The distance from the transducer to the outside beams is a longer distance. The sounder will draw bottom pixels on your display based on the shortest round trip time per ping. So if you have fish close to the bottom on the outside beams that is a longer round trip time per ping, so the sounder would draw those targets at a deeper depth than the bottom. The targets would be in the bottom tail. Does that make sense. No for deep pelagic fishing, where bottom is not an issue, the narrower cone angle could be an advantage to get a better location of the fish. However, the higher the frequency the more opt it is to pick up mid water clutter like plankton layers ect.

I think either way they will both work to find fish in deeper waters.

hi c bass
yep that makes sense with the beam angles and ping and fish not showing
thanks for your help with all my questions
ill have to post some pics of what I find out there!

hi c bass
So ive been in contact with my local furuno dealer and he isn't real sure about all this chirp stuff
do I need a non duplexed transducer for the fcv 295
im assuming I do from what ive read.
2 wires per frequency.

Furuno TM265LH 1KW T/M CHIRP Transducer
MPN:198722
Or can I buy an airmar TM 265LH and cut the plug off
will it have 2 wires per frequency
thanks adam

i just got this email from airmar
The CHIRP transducers only come as non diplexed, so it will work fine with the FCV 295.

Airmar Tech Support

why doesn't mine show up as low frequencies? I fish a depth of 150 to 250 meters, can I help myself ??? or tap this setting on A, please listen for some popping sound on the probe. I would like to have as low frequency options as the photo postes By Snip. thanks

220.0kHz LH TERMINAL
215.0kHz LH TERMINAL
220.0KHz LF TERMINAL
224.5 kHz LF TERMINAL

How solve it, My transduce is Airmar B260 50/200

Sheltonnovais,
Look in the transducer setup menu, you can enter this menu by holding in the menu bottom for 10 seconds while you power up the sounder. Make sure that the HF channel is set for 200Khz with a bandwidth of 40Khz and the LF side is set for 42khz with a band width of 21khz.

Snips

Snips, Before

Snips, after, i think it will work now!!!